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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:26:38 GMT
By dave-in-denver Mar 14, 2019#1 Took my new 9-shot Adj-sight RR that I picked up 2 days to the range today. Way happy with the trigger and cycling (can you say cycling on a wheel gun?). I was getting consistent groups at 9 o'clock with the first 100 rounds. Then put another 75 rounds through it to adjust the POI; adjusted the windage, then again, then again but I was getting little improvement even though the rear sight moved well and over 1 and half indicator marks. Hmmm? Took a look at the muzzle crown. I'm just a plinker but I did not like what I saw. 12 o'clock of the muzzle crown looked mostly OK, but the 6 o'clock looked lower/deeper that the other side. The over all impression was that it was out of round. See pics. Also, when about to snaked the barrel and cylinder I saw what looks like an inconsistent powder/impact gap on the forcing cone side of the cylinder. Out of round cylinder? I don't know... what do you long time shooters think?    |
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:27:20 GMT
By whichfinger
Mar 15, 2019#2
I've been taught the way to check the barrel crown is to shoot several rounds through it, then look at the pattern on the crown from the burnt powder. If it's an even star pattern you're good. if it's not, you got some work to do. I've read guys do it with a slotted round-head screw as tool with lapping compound. Chuck the screw in a drill and lap the barrel at a slow speed, stopping frequently to check your work. I did that on one of my rifles (can't remember which one, it was many years ago) and it worked fine. This another case where Google is your friend. 😉 Lots of youtube videos too.
Not sure I see an issue with the cylinder. There are nine chambers squeezed in there so there's bound to be some burnt powder overlap.
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:28:03 GMT
By dave-in-denver
Thanks w/f. Existence of burnt powder, overlapped or not, on the cylinder is fine/normal. My eye caught the fact that the powder rings so perfectly progress from light to heavy. Just odd to me. Suggest wobble or out of round of the cylinder or its pin to me.
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:28:33 GMT
By whichfinger
Mar 15, 2019#4
Ah, I see it now. Let's call the one with the least powder ring Chamber #1. Chamber #9, then, has the heaviest powder ring. Since #1 is adjacent to #9 I don't see how "wobble" would be causing it. The chambers are so close I'd expect #1 ring and #9 ring to be as alike as #1 and #2. Does that make sense?
If you have feeler gauges, try checking for even gaps as the cylinder turns.
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:29:43 GMT
By dave-in-denver
Mar 15, 2019#5
whichfinger wrote:
Ah, I see it now. Let's call the one with the least powder ring Chamber #1. Chamber #9, then, has the heaviest powder ring. Since #1 is adjacent to #9 I don't see how "wobble" would be causing it. The chambers are so close I'd expect #1 ring and #9 ring to be as alike as #1 and #2. Does that make sense?
If you have feeler gauges, try checking for even gaps as the cylinder turns.
Agree... doesn't make sense for a 'simple' wobble problem with that obvious light and heavy ring right next to each other and observable progression inbetween. God only knows where my feeler guage is. Will look.
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:31:43 GMT
By dangerranger
Mar 18, 2019#6
The pic of the cylinder looks just fine to me. Starting at the 9:00 and going counter clockwise to the 10:00 would be last fired to the first at 10:00. An easy way to test that would be with a feeler gauge.
The barrel crown altho its not a perfect target grade barrel should still shoot straight. What I see is a machining tool mark. A crown defect that would deflect bullets would be seen as an impact mark that deflected metal from the crown inward. And it would usually be on a ridge. Shoot it for awhile before making any changes, You may find that after 175 rounds and more than 17 reloads that your eyes got tired, you were not gripping it exactly the same each time, or that the light was changing. Changing light doesn't move bullet impact but it does change the way we see the target. Good Luck and let us know how it came out. DR
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:32:40 GMT
By dave-in-denver Mar 18, 2019#7 dangerranger wrote: The pic of the cylinder looks just fine to me. Starting at the 9:00 and going counter clockwise to the 10:00 would be last fired to the first at 10:00. An easy way to test that would be with a feeler gauge. The barrel crown altho its not a perfect target grade barrel should still shoot straight. What I see is a machining tool mark. A crown defect that would deflect bullets would be seen as an impact mark that deflected metal from the crown inward. And it would usually be on a ridge. Shoot it for awhile before making any changes, You may find that after 175 rounds and more than 17 reloads that your eyes got tired, you were not gripping it exactly the same each time, or that the light was changing. Changing light doesn't move bullet impact but it does change the way we see the target. Good Luck and let us know how it came out. DR Thanks for thoughts and tips. I was at in indoor range and my groups were getting better (I mark each 9 rounds and then change targets after 3 re-loads.) I stop shooting for the day, as usual, when my groups start to get worse. I have 7 targets from this first outing. Started with 3" groups, got to a few 1.5" groups, then quit when 2" + flyers showed up. The RSO shot 2 cylinders using a fresh target. Same 9 o'clock location as I had... but his groups were half what mine were. I was shooting at just 5yrds... I have to start somewhere. When my groups and POI stabilize with a gun then I will add distance. Yep will look for my feeler. It's fine at a sub-$200 gun does not have a target barrel. Since I could not get the windage adjustment (it moved fine) to change POI very much I became concerned about the crown. The crown definitely has a high and a low side to me. I'm asked you experience pros here about what I see. If you guys say forget about the crown then I'll move on. (And find something else to blame... can't be me... right?  Yep... will shoot a bunch more and monitor/advise. |
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:34:59 GMT
By dangerranger
Apr 10, 2019#14
One way to evaluate the muzzle is to shoot the gun and then examine the muzzle , there should be a star shaped powder fouling. its points should be more or less even or symmetrical all the way around. if there is a problem that foulinf star will be very lopsided. Good Luck DR
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:35:44 GMT
By dave-in-denver Apr 10, 2019#15 dangerranger wrote: One way to evaluate the muzzle is to shoot the gun and then examine the muzzle , there should be a star shaped powder fouling. its points should be more or less even or symmetrical all the way around. if there is a problem that foulinf star will be very lopsided. Good Luck DR Thanks for info and followup! Muzzle crow is definitely poor. Now that I have 600 rounds through it (100 just today which brings it to 400 more since former pics) the 'star' is easy to see. The star is not symmetrical; either powder after shooting or the ware pattern showing when cleaned.) The star is week at 11 o'clock and strong at 5 o'clock (looking at the muzzle) which corresponds to high and low spots down in the crown. Took it to the full-time gunsmith at the LGS where I got it a few days ago to see powder pattern and then cleaned up latter. Yep... 'Houston, we have a problem.' So I have set the stage with the LGS, GalleryOfBuns/Davidson (distributor) and with Heritage too. All very helpful and will process a postage paid return for repairs as soon I take back to LGS. Best pics I can get (which are not as obvious when looking oneself) do show the problem. Hey... look at the frame pics... see the ware pattern from the gas near the forcing ring. Normal after just 600 rounds? Just shooting CCI LR MiniMag ammo... not .22 magnums    |
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:39:19 GMT
By LasPistolas
Apr 11, 2019#16
dave-in-denver wrote:
dangerranger wrote:
One way to evaluate the muzzle is to shoot the gun and then examine the muzzle , there should be a star shaped powder fouling. its points should be more or less even or symmetrical all the way around. if there is a problem that foulinf star will be very lopsided. Good Luck DR
Thanks for info and followup!
Muzzle crow is definitely poor. Now that I have 600 rounds through it (100 just today which brings it to 400 more since former pics) the 'star' is easy to see. The star is not symmetrical; either powder after shooting or the ware pattern showing when cleaned.) The star is week at 11 o'clock and strong at 5 o'clock (looking at the muzzle) which corresponds to high and low spots down in the crown.
Took it to the full-time gunsmith at the LGS where I got it a few days ago to see powder pattern and then cleaned up latter. Yep... 'Houston, we have a problem.' So I have set the stage with the LGS, GalleryOfBuns/Davidson (distributor) and with Heritage too. All very helpful and will process a postage paid return for repairs as soon I take back to LGS. Best pics I can get (which are not as obvious when looking oneself) do show the problem.
Hey... look at the frame pics... see the ware pattern from the gas near the forcing ring. Normal after just 600 rounds? Just shooting CCI LR MiniMag ammo... not .22 magnums
I have the same excess material above the forcing cone. I assumed it was debris from gas and powder as a result of loose tolerances of an inexpensive, dual caliber pistol and I just scrape it off as part of my cleaning. The metal underneath is undamaged.
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:40:58 GMT
By Mike-USNret-88
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:42:28 GMT
Apr 21, 2019#19
Thanks Mike-...!
Excellent vid!
If my new gun just had a rough crown I would jump on this!
But the darn thing is so off center and already has a "deep hunters crown" (as I was told by gunsmith at the LGS) from the factory that there is just too much metal that needs to be removed (relatively) to use a free-hand touch-up solution. Sure wish that were not the case.
Thanks!
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:44:46 GMT
By dave-in-denver
Jun 19, 2019#24
Got my RR back from warranty repair. (9-shot, adj fiber sights.)
Took 7 weeks (4/26/19 --> 6/20/19)
LGS, Davidson, Heritage, --> Heritage, Davidson, LGS
Free shipping, Davidson thing.
Had to do/pay another BGC upon pickup at LGS. Ick.
It was a "Monday gun" = poor muzzle crown, cylinder face uneven burn, lockup iffy, sight off center, soot from forcing cone gap.
Put 750 rnd in the first 30days... poor groups... bad words (that's on me)... sent it back.
Heritage replaced nearly everything sep'en the s/n.
- New barrel (crow looks much better!)
- New front fiber sight (on straight)
- Adj cylinder Timing
- Adj cylinder alignment
- Adj barrel forcing cone (looks tight)
Hope to get out Friday to kill some paper.
The last outings I just wounded some, scared off the rest of'em.
Stay by your radio... more to come.
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:45:46 GMT
By dave-in-denver Jun 21, 2019#29 Put 100rds through the repaired (to put it mildly) RR 9-shot today. WAY WAY better! Lock up is much better/tight, POI is good with factory at-center setting (a bit high). Groups are good (for me.. off-hand, fire every 5 sec, not going for the gold). Pics of the cylinder face show the forcing cone and cylinder alignment was vastly improved from the orig. Barrel muzzle crown has good powder symmetry (former barrel was caca). Now I can focus on POA and POI with this RR rather than the hassles of compromising with a "Monday gun". There were way too many things wrong with my Monday gun. Not happy about that. Having to bother with a return and the 7-week turn-around... more unhappiness. End results look really promising. Here is a pic of the 1st 27rds at 5yrd and post-fix pics.    |
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Post by whichfinger on Jan 29, 2020 18:48:53 GMT
By Mike-USNret-88
Jun 22, 2019#30
Everything looks...that includes the target! Yep, the turn around time is very frustrating. The T/A time and the lack of the repair department willingness to make an easy decision as repair or replacement (at least for my firearm) will probably be my decision maker about no more Taurus products. ORRRRRR just go ahead and buy one from Bud'sGun Shop with the lifetime warranty.... as I did, but if any problem arises just hold on to it till the one year factory warranty expires and go thru Buds for repair.
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